tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971457096513194140.post6374172754739554909..comments2023-05-26T11:20:46.846-04:00Comments on Khadoran Machine Never Breaks: The (new) battle of Marathon: pButcher vs eGaspyDemitrahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17364098865244177181noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971457096513194140.post-65750510509208730122011-11-22T16:36:35.851-05:002011-11-22T16:36:35.851-05:00I've thought about doing just that, shooting f...I've thought about doing just that, shooting for t2 and going heavy on the MoW. If I went that route I'd probably stick in some Bombardiers as ranged support just to keep with the theme, though your list looks solid as it is. I've had a lot of fun with MoW of late (it's amazing how Shock Troopers make the whole MoW chassis look better), but ultimately they're not what I'm (currently) looking for when I look at the pButcher theme list.<br /><br />What it comes down to is this: Full Throttle. It's an amazing spell that only gets better with more jacks, at least with certain jacks. Juggernauts, Kodiaks, Berserkers, all of these look good with Full Throttle up. The Devastator though, not so much. Rain of Death is great, but it doesn't benefit as much from Full Throttle. Granted the fists will, but to use them you have to open the thing up. Of course you can buy fist attacks after you RoD, but with Full Throttle going and Iron Flesh surely being upkept, that only leaves 2 possible Focus for the Devastator. Compare with the initial attacks of the other three, plus their ability to attack without making themselves more vulnerable than they usually are, and for me the answer is an easy one. <br /><br />With all that in mind, I want to run at least two jacks with Orsus, and three would be even better. I can fit three into a t4 list and not sacrifice a whole lot to do it. Granted it's a tight fit, but it gets everything up the field quickly. At t2 the jacks would form a nice second wave, but the appeal of the theme list as a whole is that it throws all that armor across the table and forces your opponent to deal with it all right now.<br /><br />In the end it's all theorymachine at the moment as I don't have the pieces (yet) for a t4 list. Once I get them all together I'm sure I'll try the various options available. Unfortunately for Orsus, a new MoW hotness has appeared of late: eIrusk. On paper he looks like a much better fit for a horde of MoW. Of course all of this will have to play out on the table.Demitrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17364098865244177181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971457096513194140.post-63618960594328742972011-11-21T09:01:07.297-05:002011-11-21T09:01:07.297-05:00"but if I'm trying to run a tier 4 list a..."but if I'm trying to run a tier 4 list at 35 points" - I see this a lot. People seem to think that if they are running a tier list, they need to get it to Tier 4. Clearly there are benefits in doing so, but it's not required. The Tier 4 benefit for the Butcher's theme is great, but Khadoran jacks are too expensive to do it without compromising the army elsewhere. The Tier 2 bonus is a good benefit to aim for, as it really, really, really helps. <br /><br />FWIW, my 35pt tier for Butcher is as follows: <br />Butcher <br />War dog <br />Kodiak (essential: pathfinder is too valuable to lose, especially in a list that is generally so slow)<br />Devastator <br />Max Shocktroopers <br />Min Demo Corps <br />Widowmakers <br />Marksman <br />Yuri <br /><br />It's tier 2, but I find it works well. It's ended up as my favourite list for objective games. <br /><br />Yuri and the Kodiak are terrain clearers, Widowmakers + Marksman are to target things staying away from the slower core. The important part is the speed bonus for the Men'o'war. In scenario games that is amazing, as you get 5 very tough models and 3 hard hitting models (who can each attack twice!) around an objective. Butcher and the Devastator can be a little more reactive in their use. <br /><br />To get to 50 add a juggernaut and whatever you fancy, aiming for tier 4.Border Princenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971457096513194140.post-46553865822435093132011-11-20T10:55:06.644-05:002011-11-20T10:55:06.644-05:00Vent Steam only works on living models, which rule...Vent Steam only works on living models, which rules out most of Cryx. I actually got to use it on pDenny a couple days ago and was amazed that she wasn't undead. It was the first time I'd used it for damage and not just concealment. <br /><br />I like the Devastator, but if I'm trying to run a tier 4 list at 35 points, things are real tight. Instead of Yuri I could take a Widowmaker Marksman, or another regular Manhunter, and bump the Kodiak up to a Devastator. Problem is Yuri makes the Manhunters extra sexy, and Thresher is nothing to sneer at either. Having AD on the jacks isn't 100% required, but like Yuri the perk is half the reason for doing the points gymnastics in the first place. If I ever get the list up to 50 then there's definitely a place for the Devastator. <br /><br />I'm already committed (mentally) to getting the rest of the pieces for the tier list during the Warstore's Black Friday sale, so it won't be long before I can try all this out on the table. This psuedo theme force, with most of the restrictions and none of the benefits, has been a blast, so when I get the perks out of it I imagine it will be even better.Demitrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17364098865244177181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971457096513194140.post-55791959957337969092011-11-19T13:49:39.968-05:002011-11-19T13:49:39.968-05:00Agree about the tier list point - when I saw your ...Agree about the tier list point - when I saw your list I thought "wouldn't Butcher's tier be better?" The speed bump is incredibly useful for Men-o-War. <br /><br />One issue the tier sometimes has is clearing out horde infantry - consider replacing the Juggernaut with a Devastator. You lose a little hitting power, but gain rain of death and two-handed throws. In this battle you might have been able to have a similar (but less effective) threat using the Kodiak's vent steam. Using that on the Mechthralls might have helped you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com